I didn't take offense at your first post. Everyone has their own feelings, wants, and desires. But your argument reminded me of Angelina Jolie's pre biological children argument. In fact, it was word for word almost. She also said anyone who had biological children are selfish and she would never do it. Her first biological child was an accident (as so many are). The second two were not. What changed her mind? Biology. And, unless you've crossed that threshold (of actually having a biological child) you can never understand or relate.

Our bodies are so much smarter than it seems you are willing to give credit. Shortly after giving birth our brains produce a chemical that erases our memories of the pain of labor. Isn't that amazing? Of course you never forget the experience but you look back and say, “it wasn't that bad,” even if it really was. I know I had pain, but I couldn't tell you what it felt like. Our bodies do this to make us want to reproduce again. Of course, as in all things, some people will more effectively produce this chemical than others. Also, when we ovulate we send out chemicals (pheromones) to attract the opposite sex to fertilize our egg. Once again, not everyone sends these chemicals out at the same rate or effectiveness and not everyone receives (meaning the man) them at the same rate or effectiveness. I could go on and on about how our bodies were meant to reproduce. But, if you are really interested (which I was after I became pregnant on the pill) you can do some research. There is much out there. PBS produced an excellent documentary that I saw years ago. It was fascinating. They actually put little cameras and sensors in women's vaginas. I caught it like at 3:00 in the morning and I've never seen it since– can't even remember the name (sorry, I know that's not helpful).

Anywhoo, all of that to say– you can't fight nature. Life will always find a way (it did for me despite my absolute best efforts). Biology isn't a force to be reckoned with. But, I also believe that some people truly were not meant to ever reproduce. I also believe this is biology. It is nature's way of terminating a bad gene pool. And, I'm not saying you have a bad gene pool.

You're not insane to raise those questions, for all I care a lot (approx. 7 billion) people should ask those questions about reproduction and the state of the world.

My favorite argument to oppose all the people who think I'm as insane and inhuman as you are is this: 'I love my non-existent children so much that I prefer not to put them into a world that is (not so slowly) drifting to a huge meltdown'.
This usually keeps them quiet for a while.

In the Netherlenads (where I'm from) there's is this reaaly brilliant sceptical and humorous biologist, who once said in answer to the question why he didn't like (to have) children:
Without a child I can fly all over the world, throw chemicals in the sewer, dump leaking oil cans in the forrest AND still my ecological footprint would be smaller (than that of someone who decides to have a kid)'.

Also the knowledge that raising a child in the west (europe and the US), will cost the lives of 3 children in a developing country (because we use so much more resources), is a thought I cannot ignore. If put cruelly raising a child here basically makes you a murderer of chanceless children in Africa.

By the way: My sister has got two adorable littles daughters who I love to take to the zoo or anything, so I'm not a child hater

People can't talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable and comes off as immediately offensive. Parenting is cloaked in selflessness, the fact it's based in the opposite goes too far into self-reflection for most of us.

Yes, people want to conceive because they want a child that is theirs–with their DNA. The need to reproduce is ingrained in our species. The problem lies with the fact that times have changed and resources are limited…humans overproduced. It's no longer in our best interest to reproduce. It's counterproductive to do so. Yet, we can't turn off that button that tells us to have our own babies easily. Based on the reactions of the commentators, it seems we are not ready to start chipping away at millions of years of evolution. Your tree example is great, except humans aren't biologically wired to plant trees.

I wish people could just admit the act is selfish; people want kids for their own reasons. (And let's be clear here, selfishness does not equal bad or evil. Humans have to be selfish to survive. If you're starving and so is someone else next to you, it's selfish to ear the last bit of food. But here you'll die or him, so selfish is a method of survival). While the drive to reproduce is based in biology, the contemporary choice to conceive is not. People pregnant because it will make them happy, for whatever reason. I doubt the majority of people have kids because they feel they need to bring another life into this world for the sake of humanity and to give a new human the chance at life. The premise of conceiving in today's world is all about the parents' wants and needs, some of which are individual and some of which stem across the entire race. People have kids for different reasons, but those reasons are always about them. For example, the person who said their kids were an accident–why didn't you chose to have an abortion? Because it was the wrong choice for you. Let's not act like the kids magically showed up on your doorstep and you couldn't turn them away because they would die. You went through with the pregnancy because of your own reasons. That is selfish.

This doesn't make humans bad. It doesn't make us evil. It showcases our the current world system and our biological senses are no longer in sync.

I have a child, and I had this child via emergency c-section. He was extremely sick when he was born, and almost didn’t live. And I thought to myself, “Why did I do this to him? Why did I decide to bring him into the world to put him through this?” The truth is he was an accident. He was not a planned pregnancy. And though I believe in a woman’s right to choose to abort a fetus, I could not personally abort this child that was growing inside me. I considered giving him up for adoption, but I fell in love with him and fought as hard as I could to provide a safe and loving home for him. And I have, and he is thriving. Because I had a c-section, however, I felt–and still feel like I missed out in some form.

See, I have always known that I was supposed to have children. And where you mentioned here that you nothing that large would ever come out of your vagina, I felt differently. I felt like that was the reason I was put on the earth. No amount of reasoning, explanations, or logic would make me feel differently. I wanted the whole experience: the morning sickness, the swollen ankles and feet, the big(ger) breasts, the glow. I wanted to feel the contractions and experience that terrifying, but amazing feeling of growing something inside me and allowing my body to do what it was made to do, push it out of my vagina and place it on my breast. I wanted that bond and that experience more than anything else. Yes it was selfish, but just like you cannot tell a tweenage girl to stay away from the poetry-writing, piano-playing goth kid at her middle school (his name was Daniel), there was no way of swaying me from the urges my body had ever since I hit puberty. I honestly did not feel that I could love a child the way he/she was supposed to be loved unless he/she came from my body.

Now that I have had my child, I do feel that I missed out on that birthing experience. I cannot have any more children, because I was in such danger with him, but I still want children. I still feel like my place on this earth is to be a mother, a good one. I know now that I do have the love available in my heart to give an adopted child, but it took me several years of being a parent to feel that way. Everybody is different. I will probably foster children at some point, when I know I am ready.

I respect you in your decision to not have a child of your own, but the same argument can be made that adopting a child when you have a diagnosed mental illness is a selfish decision. Really, should anybody have or raise any children? We are not perfect, but we all do the best we can. I’m sure you will be an amazing parent to any child you have or adopt, as am I to any child that I have or care for. Good luck, and thanks for letting me rant.